sitdown248 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

We are paying for stuff, through the roof. I completely agree, what we are paying for we are not getting. But the solution is not expanding the system. It is obvious that this nationalzied healthcare plans don't work in America like they do elsewhere. The people don't like the government controlling healthcare because they always screw it up

mikanally (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

What if I told you were paying for something but not getting it? Your payroll tax scheme is nearly identical to that of Canada and the United Kingdom. So for a single person living in all three countries, the amount of taxes paid is within one percentage point. This is important, because payroll taxes here cover many things, just like in the U.S.A., the difference being that some of that money in Canada and the U.K. funds the entire healthcare system. It's quite jarring if you do the research.

sitdown248 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Yes, I agree. Just like people outside the United States don't understand the electoral college (although a lot of people here don't ;). I'm being honest, people in the USA do not want nationalzied healthcare. Our healthcare system has many problems, but overrall it is a very productive system, coming up with new cures and treatments all the time. Is it too expensive? Yes. But is the quality there? yes. If you're getting the quality then the price doesn't matter as much, imo

mikanally (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I have to admit that it's very hard for someone outside your country to understand why this is so, but as you say you can't give people something they don't want (if that is in fact the case).

sitdown248 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Ah, now you realize the problems in the system. The uninsured don't get punished any longer for not being insured. It's possibly easier now to be uninsured than to be insured because when you get sick you just go to the hospital and get treated, because they have to treat you. People keep thinking of healthcare has a right, but it's not, it's just a product on the market. Green tea supposeably increaess the wellness of your life, should all citizens get this?

mikanally (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Since when do you decide how long you live, then? You're sure that illness doesn't run in the family? You're strong enough to take a beating in an car accident or a violent physical assault? You must be like Superman or something... Chew on this one for a bit:...If you're poor in your country (U.S.A.), you'll get looked after for free, on someone else's tab, so how is a system where paying people who also pay for the uninsured any better than a single payer system?

sitdown248 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

It depends what kind of health or healthcare you are speaking of. Health is not a commodity, people cannot just take it from you (beat you up, kill you, etc) but healthcare is a commodity. It is something people can get to enhance their lives, it's not a need, its a want. It is confused as a need and right often, but it is not, people didn't used to have healthcare and survived fine, so I do not see the "right" argument

sitdown248 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Yes, I completely agree, people cannot work and create if they are unhealthy, but they can't if they don't have food, or no place to live. The government isn't required to provide these two things for every citizen, why should they be required to provide healthcare? I agree, let's let democracy and equal opportunity flow. The majoirty does NOT want nationalzied healthcare and forcing people into the government citizen doens't sound like equal opportunity to me

lilydacat (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Health care is a resource that is an essential component for a modern society to function. People cannot work nor innovate if they are unhealthy. Communities in the US have already decided to share the risk when it comes to publicly financing firefighters, policeman, rapid transit, and military. Health insurance also needs to be publically financed as well. In a country that stands for democracy and equal opportunity, no one individual should have better or worse health care than another.

sitdown248 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Yes, you are correct, health is different then, let's say a refrigerator or a car. However, just because it is different does not mean it is the government's oblagation to provide. The government does have an oblagation to protect it, such as forbidding people to hurt one another, etc. However, there is no such oblagation applying to medical coverage. This is simply a want/desire. Living a long life is not a right. Life is a right, but the length is your choice.